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and if they can come to a deal, then i think we can avoid the fiscal cliff. >> and do you think that -- somebody put this idea out here. and this idea is really vile. i'll use the right word. i think you'll agree. here's the idea. let's go off the cliff, just for purely political reasons, nothing happens immediately, and then, you know, you all come back in session in early january, and you give the middle class a tax cut, and you give the wealthy a tax cut, they'll pay more than they're paying now but less than 39.6.% is that possibly what both sides are angling to? >> you use the word vile and i'll echo that word. i think going over the cliff is a disaster. i think social leaders negotiate the best deal they possibly can, and let's try and get this done. i would not be for playing a game of chicken, if you will, or trying to fool the american people who are pretty dadgum smart when it comes to these sorts of things. >> do you fear the right wing of your own party, a wing that says any revenue, as you heard jim demint say, no revenue, not part of the deal. do you think that's going
and if they can come to a deal, then i think we can avoid the fiscal cliff. >> and do you think that -- somebody put this idea out here. and this idea is really vile. i'll use the right word. i think you'll agree. here's the idea. let's go off the cliff, just for purely political reasons, nothing happens immediately, and then, you know, you all come back in session in early january, and you give the middle class a tax cut, and you give the wealthy a tax cut, they'll pay more than they're...
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but whatever you call it, politico's front page headline reads, fiscal cliff deal emerging. it hashes out the flame woframe agreement including $400 billion in cuts to entitlements. but how close are they really? depends on who you ask. >> what's going on between the decision makers is little to nothing. >> you can actually now see what the contours of the deal look like. >> i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to overt this crisis and sooner rather than later. >> we will not negotiate the end of medicare. i don't know what it is with these republicans. >> it's safer if you're on the progressive end of the political spectrum to go over the fiscal cliff than it is to agree to some of the things they're talking about. >> ruth, where do you stand, deal or no deal? >> not who deal, but who are more pessimistic. the clock is really ticking. about ten legislative days left in the year. outlines are there but the willingness to do it and the ability to get it done in time, i'm more disappointed than i thought i would be at this point. on the other hand, this is the
but whatever you call it, politico's front page headline reads, fiscal cliff deal emerging. it hashes out the flame woframe agreement including $400 billion in cuts to entitlements. but how close are they really? depends on who you ask. >> what's going on between the decision makers is little to nothing. >> you can actually now see what the contours of the deal look like. >> i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to overt this crisis and sooner rather than later....
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with the fiscal cliff, and our long term deficit challenges. we have yet to see even an acknowledgement of republican leaders of the fact that there is no deal that does not include rates going up on top earners. as the president said in the interview you cited and said before, he doesn't hold the position because it's inherently good orments to punish wealthy americans, but holds it because it's mathematically sound. it's an absolute fact there's no way to achieve balance in a broad deficit reduction package, a balance that requires significant revenues without rates going up on top earners. you cannot achieve it through promised closing of loopholes or capping of deductions, and you certainly can't achieve it through the kind of vague proposal that we see from republicans which contains no specificity whatsoever, not a single deduction named or loophole identified to be close so rates have to go up. the president believes that, and it's part of the proposal that his team put forward to congress that we need to have a frame work here that envi
with the fiscal cliff, and our long term deficit challenges. we have yet to see even an acknowledgement of republican leaders of the fact that there is no deal that does not include rates going up on top earners. as the president said in the interview you cited and said before, he doesn't hold the position because it's inherently good orments to punish wealthy americans, but holds it because it's mathematically sound. it's an absolute fact there's no way to achieve balance in a broad deficit...
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Nov 29, 2012
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the fiscal cliff is not a big deal. i'll quote one here. it's unlikely all of these bad things happen or stay in effect for an extended period of time. pundits call if the fiscal cliff smoke that is, instead o a cliff, the rising support for junking the fiscal approach as confusing and renaming it the austerity crisis or bomb. that's it. according to the u.s. news and world report, give the cliff another name, and that would change the entire impact on its problems. the reality, though, is this. you'll pay higher taxes in all likelihood consider these numbers from the tax policy center. middle class earners, folks with an income of $64,000, their rate increased 3 #.8% or2,000. upper middle class folks, $108,000 in income, family of four maybe, two people working, your rate is 4.2% or $ $3500. if you make more than half a million, watch for a more than 5 #% hike in taxes or $15,000 tax increase. in rich land, earners of more than $2.5, an 8% increase in the rate, and this is how much more you pay. this is what they call fair and equal, divid
the fiscal cliff is not a big deal. i'll quote one here. it's unlikely all of these bad things happen or stay in effect for an extended period of time. pundits call if the fiscal cliff smoke that is, instead o a cliff, the rising support for junking the fiscal approach as confusing and renaming it the austerity crisis or bomb. that's it. according to the u.s. news and world report, give the cliff another name, and that would change the entire impact on its problems. the reality, though, is...
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Nov 30, 2012
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insist any fiscal cliff deal includes a raising of the debt ceiling or they're going to say, we want the power to raise the debt ceiling. you know, i think that might actually end up being a big sticking point of the negotiation. >> understandably they see it as the biggest point of leverage. >> it also seems to me the tone is moving in the wrong direction. after the -- right after the election, there was a little bit of recrimination, a little like well, boehner sounded getting squishy and what's happened over the succession of weeks since then, as he's meeting with the caucus, there's a hardening. in terms of -- >> or a disbelief -- a disbelief -- >> comes out and says stuff like that, you read some of the local papers, these people rshs it. >> are telling their local paper we're in a bad negotiation position here. >> the problem is, had he's probably a guy that's going to -- boehner will still be dealing with after january 3rd. in the lame duck congress it's still the same congress and boehner still has to message to those people because he still has to gets the gavel back in janu
insist any fiscal cliff deal includes a raising of the debt ceiling or they're going to say, we want the power to raise the debt ceiling. you know, i think that might actually end up being a big sticking point of the negotiation. >> understandably they see it as the biggest point of leverage. >> it also seems to me the tone is moving in the wrong direction. after the -- right after the election, there was a little bit of recrimination, a little like well, boehner sounded getting...
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a new poll shows republicans will take the blame if a deal isn't reached and we go over the fiscal cliff. 53% say it's on republicans. half that, 27%, will blame the president. this is progress. this is change. if president obama can break republicans on tax increases, this could redefine american politics. it would help to change our politics in very important ways. and who knows what else may be possible. joining me now is krystal ball and richard wolffe. thank you for being here tonight. >> thanks, reverend. >> thanks, reverend. krystal, how big a moment will it be if the president gets the republicans to cave on tax increases? >> i mean, it really is sort of hard to understate how significant that would be. it would es seshlgsentially mar end of when george w.h. bush led taxes. we had the contract for america. that in some ways was the precursor of the tea party and this very extreme rhetoric, us versus them rhetoric, where rather than talking about nuance differences between positions you call the president's health care bill socialism and yell about death panels and caricature thin
a new poll shows republicans will take the blame if a deal isn't reached and we go over the fiscal cliff. 53% say it's on republicans. half that, 27%, will blame the president. this is progress. this is change. if president obama can break republicans on tax increases, this could redefine american politics. it would help to change our politics in very important ways. and who knows what else may be possible. joining me now is krystal ball and richard wolffe. thank you for being here tonight....
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he is supposed to be very influential and a part of the daily negotiations on this fiscal cliff deal, although he is hiding from the press, which is an interesting game. as he kind of emerges, we know that marco rubio is running. he has already been to iowa. they both have these roles. what will a fiscal cliff deal -- will paul ryan get blamed if he does, and marco rubio can he turn the party around with some push for immigration reform? risky with the base. >> it also is interesting in these kind of years where the republicans have now suffered a loss. clearly mitt romney is not going to be the party leader. they don't actually have one, and you watch the wilderness lap for a while. >> you know, candy, i hate to say this because i know we want to play along for 2016, but i think part of the problem in washington is everyone is so focused on the next election it's always an excuse not to get something done. i think the american people think we just went through an election. now please now that you all have jobs, could we actually solve problems and get something done? you know, 2016 w
he is supposed to be very influential and a part of the daily negotiations on this fiscal cliff deal, although he is hiding from the press, which is an interesting game. as he kind of emerges, we know that marco rubio is running. he has already been to iowa. they both have these roles. what will a fiscal cliff deal -- will paul ryan get blamed if he does, and marco rubio can he turn the party around with some push for immigration reform? risky with the base. >> it also is interesting in...
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short term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the fiscal conservatives criticizing boehner's budget pr proposal. then you had senate republicans watching their backs, rejecting a u.n. treaty that bans discrimination against those with disabilities around the world. senator jim demint said speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. yes, he said speaker boehner. one party proposes increase in an effort to counter them. the other party's leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases and then former alaska governor sarah palin blasting boehner's decision to remove some conse
short term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the...
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with the white house to avoid a fiscal cliff. cnbc's becky quick is here. what has more impact? the weekly jobless claims which have some sandy issues involved or the fiscal cliff talks? >> definitely the fiscal cliff. what you were talking about yesterday, boehner's comments really turned things around for the markets, all this sense of optimism all of a sudden. we saw the markets go from down triple digits for the dow up to triple digits. we haven't seen a swing like that since over a year ago. it's been october of 2011 was the last time it happened. it's definitely the fiscal cliff driving things. we heard commentary from lloyd blankfein, between that and the lead story -- one of the top stories on the front page of the "wall street journal" suggesting the president is flexible on the tax hikes, that sounds like a deal might get done. you see a gain of 50 or 60 points. gdp up 2.7% from 2%. there was concerning things when you dig into the numbers, it's all fiscal cliff all the time here, chuck. >> oh, hopefully, as you guys sa
with the white house to avoid a fiscal cliff. cnbc's becky quick is here. what has more impact? the weekly jobless claims which have some sandy issues involved or the fiscal cliff talks? >> definitely the fiscal cliff. what you were talking about yesterday, boehner's comments really turned things around for the markets, all this sense of optimism all of a sudden. we saw the markets go from down triple digits for the dow up to triple digits. we haven't seen a swing like that since over a...
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. >> host: as part of our series looking at that so-called fiscal cliff that's looming, we're looking at different aspects of it. and today we turn our attention to the alternative minimum tax and the patch that could come from congress if they're able to work out a deal. if they do nothing, this will impact 30 million americans. joining us to discuss is georgetown law's john buckley. thank you for being here. john buckley, let's begin. what is the alternative minimum tax? >> guest: well, in very simple terms, the tax requires you to pay the greater of what you pay under the regular income tax or what you would compute under the minimum tax which has a slightly broader base. it disallows some deductions that would be allowed in the regular tax. in some respects it's very similar to the cap on itemized deductions that's currently being discussed. rather than directly attack preferences and expenditures, it essentially puts an overall cap on the benefit. there's no new ideas in this debate. the cap bears a very strong relationship to how the alternative minimum tax works. >> host: here
. >> host: as part of our series looking at that so-called fiscal cliff that's looming, we're looking at different aspects of it. and today we turn our attention to the alternative minimum tax and the patch that could come from congress if they're able to work out a deal. if they do nothing, this will impact 30 million americans. joining us to discuss is georgetown law's john buckley. thank you for being here. john buckley, let's begin. what is the alternative minimum tax? >> guest:...
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cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgotten the republicans continue to hold the majority in the house. but you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is -- roll over and do what i ask. we need to find common ground and we need to find it quickly. >> governor, are they going to be able to find that common ground quickly? >> yeah, i think they are. you know i have to laugh. in the first term, the president was criticized by his base for giving in too quickly or too easily. this is a negotiation. and in the negotiation, you don't put on the table initially where you want to wind up. you put out what's your bargaining position and both sides have to understand that. but what i do think is important, is both sides, and not just the president, but our democrats in the congress as well. have to understand both sides have to understand what the other side needs to d
cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgotten the republicans continue to hold the majority in the house. but you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is -- roll over and do what i ask. we need to find common ground and we need to find it quickly. >> governor, are they going to be able to find that common ground quickly? >>...
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we are obviously certainly no further down the road to a f fiscal cliff deal. what's the latest and is this posturing, kelly, or is this real? i mean, is this disagreement about kind of laying out the stakes of where everybody stands and what they're willing to give or is it a possibility that we don't get a deal? >> reporter: well, you do hear rumblings, chris, about no deal. but at the same time people are saying there's still some negotiating time left and a bit of optimism. when you heard the tone of what was unfolding yesterday, it was kind of shocking to republicans who would say that the president's offer is so far from a negotiating point that they are surprised not so much that these are the positions that we're in because much has been the president's public rhetoric but in terms of real negotiating they say they were surprised this wasn't the kind of offer that would have happened some weeks ago, meaning right after the election if you want to start there. but now with just four weeks to go they felt the president needed to move further. democrats be
we are obviously certainly no further down the road to a f fiscal cliff deal. what's the latest and is this posturing, kelly, or is this real? i mean, is this disagreement about kind of laying out the stakes of where everybody stands and what they're willing to give or is it a possibility that we don't get a deal? >> reporter: well, you do hear rumblings, chris, about no deal. but at the same time people are saying there's still some negotiating time left and a bit of optimism. when you...
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we still have no fiscal cliff deal, but there's talk between president obama and tim geithner. congress has adjourned for a long weekend. that's kind of insane. eamon javers joins us. >> reporter: the president began his day this morning before an audience of business leaders and he continued his campaign of persuasion amongst some of the nation's top ceos. >> i am passionately rooting for your success. because if the companies in this room are doing well, then small businesses and medium sized businesses up and down the chain are doing well. if companies in this room are doing well, then folks get jobs, consumers get confidence, and we're going to be able to compete around the world. >> and then larry, later in the afternoon, our steve leishman sat down with treasury secretary tim geithner. geithner in that interview late in the afternoon made it clear that this is brinksmanship of the highest order. >> i want to understand the administration's position when it comes to raising taxes on the wealthy. those making more than $250,000. if republicans do not agree to that, is the a
we still have no fiscal cliff deal, but there's talk between president obama and tim geithner. congress has adjourned for a long weekend. that's kind of insane. eamon javers joins us. >> reporter: the president began his day this morning before an audience of business leaders and he continued his campaign of persuasion amongst some of the nation's top ceos. >> i am passionately rooting for your success. because if the companies in this room are doing well, then small businesses and...
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. >>> plus, at the end of the day this fiscal cliff debate will come down to two men. the speaker of the house and the president of the united states dealing one-on-one. we will go behind closed doors and into the war room. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. can i help you? i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my spot? [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours. ♪ >>> we are watching a developing story in kansas city, missouri, right now. this is what police say appears to be a murder/suicide involving a 25-year-old nfl play
. >>> plus, at the end of the day this fiscal cliff debate will come down to two men. the speaker of the house and the president of the united states dealing one-on-one. we will go behind closed doors and into the war room. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. can i help you? i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my...
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a coalition of the nation's top c.e.o.s is feeling pessimistic about getting a fiscal cliff deal.
a coalition of the nation's top c.e.o.s is feeling pessimistic about getting a fiscal cliff deal.
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. >> john: another weekend no, deal on the fiscal cliff. how close one is depends on whom you believe. this is "special report." ♪ ♪ >> john: good evening. i'm john roberts in for bret baier this evening. deadlock, gridlock, stalemate, whatever you call it. most people in washington seem to think we are there. we have just four more weekends to go before america goes over the most talked about piece ovate i of real estn the world, the fiscal cliff. ed henry tells us not everyone is pessimistic. >> reporter: literally snapping his fingers, vice president joe biden today suggested it will be easy to finish a deal with congress to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> it would take 15 minutes from the time the decision is made by the speaker of the house to pass and make permanent middle class tax cut. the president would probably have me sprint up to the hill to bring the bill down for him to sign. it can be done like that. it is not complicated. >> greg: speaker bane -- >> reporter: speaker john boehner not so optimistic. >> this is not a progress
. >> john: another weekend no, deal on the fiscal cliff. how close one is depends on whom you believe. this is "special report." ♪ ♪ >> john: good evening. i'm john roberts in for bret baier this evening. deadlock, gridlock, stalemate, whatever you call it. most people in washington seem to think we are there. we have just four more weekends to go before america goes over the most talked about piece ovate i of real estn the world, the fiscal cliff. ed henry tells us...
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that's really what the crux of this fiscal cliff negotiation -- what these fiscal cliff negotiations are all about. they're about fairness. when the president and congressional democrats talk about the need for balanced approach, to deficit reduction and dealing with the fiscal cliff, we're talking about fairness. we're talking about making sure that if you work hard and play by the rules everyone has a chance to succeed. that the middle class needs certainly tight right now. speaker pelosi and my colleague congressman tim walls, filed a discharge petition today to take the bill that we have, that has already passed the senate, that grants certainty to the middle class, to take that bill up and make sure that we can extend the middle class tax breaks before the holidays where we can give -- that's what everyone agrees on. i don't know any republican or democrat that thinks we should let those tax rates -- tax cuts for the middle class expire. so we should pass that now. and then on the things that we're having more trouble agreeing on, we should sit down at the table. the one thing i
that's really what the crux of this fiscal cliff negotiation -- what these fiscal cliff negotiations are all about. they're about fairness. when the president and congressional democrats talk about the need for balanced approach, to deficit reduction and dealing with the fiscal cliff, we're talking about fairness. we're talking about making sure that if you work hard and play by the rules everyone has a chance to succeed. that the middle class needs certainly tight right now. speaker pelosi and...
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cliff deal because it's unlikely that house republicans would allow these to appear freestanding. using these as leverage in terms of negotiation. house republicans could sleep fine knowing the payroll tax cut is not extended and the ui is not extended. they think that's too much spending. >> which is crazy because they're arguing for the top earners really putting their stake in the ground on top earners and when it comes to working class and poor tax cuts are a bad thing. >> the payroll tax cut there's a division between democrats about how much you want to raid the social security trust fund. but unemployment insurance, i think absolutely has to be part of the deal from the white house perspective aside from it fitting the democrat ex-ideology, it's also what president obama believes is a stimulus to the economy. >> yeah. >> that helps people have disposable income to go to restaurants, buy gas, buy food, to pay things for their children. and i would be very surprised if it ended up as part of the larger deal because it's not going to come in early spring. >> one of the things
cliff deal because it's unlikely that house republicans would allow these to appear freestanding. using these as leverage in terms of negotiation. house republicans could sleep fine knowing the payroll tax cut is not extended and the ui is not extended. they think that's too much spending. >> which is crazy because they're arguing for the top earners really putting their stake in the ground on top earners and when it comes to working class and poor tax cuts are a bad thing. >> the...
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now congress will come back to work next week hopefully to get a fiscal cliff deal. >> maybe the movie "lincoln" will inspire senators to work together. a special screening is scheduled for december 19th. senate aides said they will not screen the movie on the senate floor but somewhere else. >> michelle obama has said over and over again she never wants to run for office but a new poll shows her leading senator mark kirk in a very hypothetical matchup. the illinois republican had a stroke last year. >> tonight the entire obama family will gather around the christmas tree. it just happens to be the national christmas tree. it will take place at 5:00 eastern time. >> if you read only one thing this morning, maybe you're already thinking about your new year's resolution to get in better shape. how could you resist this headline? my must read is courtesy of prevention magazine. it's on facebook/jansingco. yep, they're real. we've got more rollbacks on toys all december. wait, was that real? [ male announcer ] this christmas, get the hottest brands and rollbacks on the season's hottest toy
now congress will come back to work next week hopefully to get a fiscal cliff deal. >> maybe the movie "lincoln" will inspire senators to work together. a special screening is scheduled for december 19th. senate aides said they will not screen the movie on the senate floor but somewhere else. >> michelle obama has said over and over again she never wants to run for office but a new poll shows her leading senator mark kirk in a very hypothetical matchup. the illinois...
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timothy geithner saying we'll have a fiscal cliff deal, but then listen to what speaker john boehner said today. >> right now i would say we're nowhere. period. we're nowhere. we have put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has asked for more revenue than they have been asking for the entire time. >> so how do you treat the gop in this matter? how much leverage does the gop have? >> they have next to none. you look at the results of the election and where they are now, the white house and the president have done a masterful job of making clear what's going on here. the republicans and the house of representatives are holding 98% of american taxpayers hostage to get bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest to be permanent. that's what's going on here. the polls show people are going to blame the republicans if this happens. speaker boehner talks about a serious proposal. they are going to take away loopholes that help middle class taxpayers. that's not a serious proposal. the only way they are going to get the deficits d
timothy geithner saying we'll have a fiscal cliff deal, but then listen to what speaker john boehner said today. >> right now i would say we're nowhere. period. we're nowhere. we have put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has asked for more revenue than they have been asking for the entire time. >> so how do you treat the gop in this matter? how much leverage does the gop have? >> they have next to none....
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take that deal. don't go over the fiscal cliff. live to find another deal on a grand bargain. tax reform, entitlement. >> you really think democrats, they get that tax increase, that they're going to come and give spending cuts late sner. >> i think there are ways you can try to make it. eric's made a great point historically that things like ruddman, the spending cuts never end up happening. everyone who's realistic at the table recognizes you've got to have a balanced plan. serious cuts and revenue increases. you can't -- >> we've had 18 debt and deficit commissions since '81. the cuts never came. >> cynicism isn't a plan though, eric. we need to put forward a plan. can't just keep saying they're screwing it up. >> if you don't put cuts in though with tax increase, you've got a problem because it's easy to raise taxes on a few people. most people will not support cuts that hurt them. >> you've got to have entitlement reform. >> you can actually lower rates, close loopholes and raise revenue. >> all right. thanks to both. appreciate it. more than two months after the deadly a
take that deal. don't go over the fiscal cliff. live to find another deal on a grand bargain. tax reform, entitlement. >> you really think democrats, they get that tax increase, that they're going to come and give spending cuts late sner. >> i think there are ways you can try to make it. eric's made a great point historically that things like ruddman, the spending cuts never end up happening. everyone who's realistic at the table recognizes you've got to have a balanced plan....
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let's get to the fiscal cliff. the president set the deal, over the next decade. are there specific ways of reaching that figure that both of you might agree on? >> well, you know, i think one compromise i agree with the democrats on, we need to cut the military spending. so i think the compromise, the conservatives like myself that think the national defense is important, should compromise on the military spending, and liberals should compromise on the welfare. >> and both sides are going to have to compromise on this, beyond defense spending is there any other compromise that you could see you supporting? >> well, it mostly has to be to me on the spending side. we used to spend about 20% of gdp, we're now spending 25% of gdp. so federal spending has gone up in an alarming rate in the last four years. and when people come to me and say oh, we just have to raise taxes on rich people. one, there is not enough money. and two, you often find when you raise rates you get less revenue. and sometimes you find when you lower rates you get more revenue. >> what do you mak
let's get to the fiscal cliff. the president set the deal, over the next decade. are there specific ways of reaching that figure that both of you might agree on? >> well, you know, i think one compromise i agree with the democrats on, we need to cut the military spending. so i think the compromise, the conservatives like myself that think the national defense is important, should compromise on the military spending, and liberals should compromise on the welfare. >> and both sides...
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cliff deal. that includes house democrats. and how do i go about doing that without totally alienating the base of my party? and i'm very curious to see what his next step is because his opening offer was essentially where he said he could only go in the debt ceiling bargains of july 2011. he said i can go to $800 billion in revenue, i can do these specific entitlement reforms. that's now his opening offer. where does he go here? >> i think, though, steve that the president of the united states and mr. lew and other democrats need to start looking at him differently. he is like an attorney that knows what his client is going to give and what his client's not going to give. we all know john boehner. john boehner's a deal maker. i didn't -- i liked him personally, but i never trusted him in congress because, you know, he liked making deals. that's what we need right now. the president can only push him so far. or he loses his caucus. and this is not about john boehner kicking and screaming. this is
cliff deal. that includes house democrats. and how do i go about doing that without totally alienating the base of my party? and i'm very curious to see what his next step is because his opening offer was essentially where he said he could only go in the debt ceiling bargains of july 2011. he said i can go to $800 billion in revenue, i can do these specific entitlement reforms. that's now his opening offer. where does he go here? >> i think, though, steve that the president of the united...
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remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the congressman. i think that we are likely not to get a deal before the beginning of the year. >> but do you think it was a senator lindsey graham indicated there at the beginning, do you think it was a political calculation or is a political calculation on the part of the white house? >> well, i think there are political calculations being made by everybody in washington right now, but i don't think it's a secret that the democrats believe, in a lot of cases, that they have the upper hand in the p.r. war over this issue. >> perry, this is grover norquist just a few hours ago on "meet the
remish, you have written about the pessimistic view on the fiscal cliff negotiations. why don't you think a deal gets done? >> well, i just think the parties are too far apart. if president obama wants republicans to agree not only to allow the top tax rates to go up, but also put a new millionaire surtax, new stimulus funding, there's no way republicans do that without many entitlement reform. i think the democrats are prepared to allow, and that's why i just think that i agree with the...
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host: "politioco" -- "polit ico" reports that a fiscal cliff deal is emerging. guest: i guess i am not sure what they were reporting. they're so many ideas out there. one of the reasons people think it will not happen until the last two weeks is because all these ideas have been developed. we know how much money they raised. is just a matter of negotiation. aides and thea's speaker boehner getting together and making a decision about it. host: we will continue this discussion next. coming up, a round table with william mcbride and seth hanlon. you can continue to collins. we believe the numbers and. we believe -- continue to call in. we will leave the lines open. we want to say thank you to cam dixon -- kim dixon of "reuters ." >> numbers in this hour show that the new jobless claims fell for a second week in a row. this after hurricane co sandy drove applications higher in the month. reports that the u.s. economy has been growing at a faster rate than had been estimated earlier. 2.7% annual rate from july through september. economists believe growth is slowing
host: "politioco" -- "polit ico" reports that a fiscal cliff deal is emerging. guest: i guess i am not sure what they were reporting. they're so many ideas out there. one of the reasons people think it will not happen until the last two weeks is because all these ideas have been developed. we know how much money they raised. is just a matter of negotiation. aides and thea's speaker boehner getting together and making a decision about it. host: we will continue this...
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republicans want to avert the fiscal cliff in its entirety. what we need is the president to come forward with a plan on how he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. it is irresponsible of us not to deal with the spending issue and simply to push for raising taxes on hard-working american people. many of us come from small- business backgrounds -- family owned businesses. we understand the situation very well. but it is important we not pass this problem along to our children and grandchildren, but we deal with it in a responsible way. the republicans have come forward with a responsible plan and will continue to do that and look for ways to keep us from going over this fiscal cliff. >> we have time for a couple questions before we go to our meeting. >> your colleague has told other colleagues that it is time to vote to extend the middle- class tax cut -- i want to get your take on his comments. more importantly, is this the direction the conference is going? >> i told tom earlier that i disagree with him. he is a wonderful friend and a great suppo
republicans want to avert the fiscal cliff in its entirety. what we need is the president to come forward with a plan on how he wants to avert the fiscal cliff. it is irresponsible of us not to deal with the spending issue and simply to push for raising taxes on hard-working american people. many of us come from small- business backgrounds -- family owned businesses. we understand the situation very well. but it is important we not pass this problem along to our children and grandchildren, but...
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. >> tonight, richard wolffe on today's nonsense from republicans and where a deal on the fiscal cliff stands. and former health insurance executive wendell potter on what obama's proposed $340 billion in medicare cuts will mean for seniors. >>> vice president joe biden stumps for the middle class at a retail store that treats its workers right. i'll talk costco and fiscal cliff with steve greenhouse of "the new york times." >>> plus hostess executives tank their company and cost the people their jobs. so why are they still demanding millions of dollars in bonuses? >>> and we'll tell you how senator john mccain fits in with congressman louie gohmert's latest conspiracy theory. >> this administration sent planes and bombs and support to oust gadhafi so al qaeda and the muslim brotherhood could take over libya. >>> good to have you with us tonight, folks. republicans are walking tall in public but hanging their heads behind closed doors. john boehner struck a defiant tone during a news conference today. he blamed the president and democrats for stalling negotiations on a debt deal. >> de
. >> tonight, richard wolffe on today's nonsense from republicans and where a deal on the fiscal cliff stands. and former health insurance executive wendell potter on what obama's proposed $340 billion in medicare cuts will mean for seniors. >>> vice president joe biden stumps for the middle class at a retail store that treats its workers right. i'll talk costco and fiscal cliff with steve greenhouse of "the new york times." >>> plus hostess executives tank...
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the fiscal cliff has come about because of happenstance. we have a series of events that were designed to happen. we have other things that are going to happen that are not necessarily intended. debt going to hit the ceiling again very shortly after the first of the year. that is something at happens when it happens. host: one piece you alluded to with entitlements is the simpson-bowles would raise the social security retirement age. explain where it would go. guest: it would raise the retirement age. right now it is scheduled to go up to 67. that was a deal reached in the 1980's to keep social security solvent. we are living longer. or social security was first created, the retirement age was 65. life expectancy was 64. now we're talking life expectancy of around 80. what this does is raising up and indexes s list. in 2075, the benefits will start being paid out. when you're 69, there are 67. like expectancy will grow at a faster rate. some argue this is still a cut because it is changing from current law. others argue it is not a change.
the fiscal cliff has come about because of happenstance. we have a series of events that were designed to happen. we have other things that are going to happen that are not necessarily intended. debt going to hit the ceiling again very shortly after the first of the year. that is something at happens when it happens. host: one piece you alluded to with entitlements is the simpson-bowles would raise the social security retirement age. explain where it would go. guest: it would raise the...
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the president sending timothy geithner to capitol hill in hopes of getting the fiscal cliff deal done before everyone's taxes go up. >> consolation lunch? president obama visits mitt romney to the white house today and everyone is buzzing about it. could obama offer him a job? >> congratulations to someone. you just won the gdp of a small nation. not just one but two winning tickets in last night's record powerball drawing. we'll tell you where. >> and if they will be my best friend soon. we have a packed show. john ba, rasso, adam shif, rick warren, tom cole, connie and mary bono mack and steven holcomb. >> we have so many people coming up. it is thursday, november 2. "starting point" begins right now. >>> good morning, everyone. our starting point this morning, developments happening now in cairo. the u.s. embassy there is closed. no one is being allowed in or out as we speak. >> embassy officials say protesters are blocking the entrance and clashes are happening near nearby. reza sayah is nearby for us. what's happening? >> reporter: there is no indication protesters are targeting
the president sending timothy geithner to capitol hill in hopes of getting the fiscal cliff deal done before everyone's taxes go up. >> consolation lunch? president obama visits mitt romney to the white house today and everyone is buzzing about it. could obama offer him a job? >> congratulations to someone. you just won the gdp of a small nation. not just one but two winning tickets in last night's record powerball drawing. we'll tell you where. >> and if they will be my best...
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the fiscal cliff. think of the economy as the car and the rich man as the driver. if you don't give the driver all the money, he'll drive you over a cliff. it's just commonsense. >> finally someone on the right willing to tell the truth. but here's the thing. this time it doesn't matter if mr. burns, speaker boehner, or the tea party try to hold the american people hostage just to get what they want. the president isn't going to budge. >> so i want to sq thank you both for coming on the show tonight. congresswoman, let me start with you. is the gop serious about holding the economy hostage again just to get what they want? >> well, think about the cards that they are holding. they are in favor of tax cuts for the rich. they want to cut tax care programs and medicare and make seniors pay and threaten the economy of the united states of america by defaulting on payments or at least to threaten that. this is not a very popular position among the public. in fact, they will be -- i think it's a suicide miss
the fiscal cliff. think of the economy as the car and the rich man as the driver. if you don't give the driver all the money, he'll drive you over a cliff. it's just commonsense. >> finally someone on the right willing to tell the truth. but here's the thing. this time it doesn't matter if mr. burns, speaker boehner, or the tea party try to hold the american people hostage just to get what they want. the president isn't going to budge. >> so i want to sq thank you both for coming on...
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how they deal with the fiscal cliff. this could prove to be a very fork in the road. the her teenage foud in yesterd. south carolina senator stkwr*eupl demint who is leading the senate to head up heritage foundation has issues with what john boehner has been doing. it's all about this counter offer to the president on tax increases. the conservative blog red state went after him. freedom works which backs tea party groups and the club for growth is really the big one. they spent $10 million going after republicans who they thought weren't conservative enough in the last election. listen to what they have to say about john boehner now. >> when he couples this conservative purging with a negotiated tax increase of $800 billion we are starting to see more and more signs that he's not dedicated to fiscally conservative beliefs. >> reporter: mr. roth said if he doesn't watch it he can lose his speakership and there are others in the city talking about what they can do to reign in the g.o.p. leadership as a group from raising taxes after republicans spent the last year on t
how they deal with the fiscal cliff. this could prove to be a very fork in the road. the her teenage foud in yesterd. south carolina senator stkwr*eupl demint who is leading the senate to head up heritage foundation has issues with what john boehner has been doing. it's all about this counter offer to the president on tax increases. the conservative blog red state went after him. freedom works which backs tea party groups and the club for growth is really the big one. they spent $10 million...
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obama and the democrats get their way, doing a deal to raise just those rates would avoid the fiscal cliff, where all bush era tax cuts on all tack tax brackets expire at the ends of the year. the election, popular opinion and more give president obama a lot of clout right now. and you can agree or disagree with the president's policy. that's for you to decide. republican congressmen tom cole of oklahoma disagrees stronsly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire on january 1st and no one wants to raise taxes on what would amount to 98% of all taxpayers. >> in my view, we all agree that we're not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases, continue to try to work honestly for a much bigger deal. >> congressman cole joins us shortly. a rock rib conservative. chair of the national republican congressional committee, and he's no longer a lone voice in the wilderness. the staunchly conservative editorial page of "the wall street
obama and the democrats get their way, doing a deal to raise just those rates would avoid the fiscal cliff, where all bush era tax cuts on all tack tax brackets expire at the ends of the year. the election, popular opinion and more give president obama a lot of clout right now. and you can agree or disagree with the president's policy. that's for you to decide. republican congressmen tom cole of oklahoma disagrees stronsly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts...
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but if we take a bad deal and say that all of the nation's fiscal problems are to be balanced on the back of middle class families and the wealthy don't participate, that's a bad deal we cannot and should not live within this country. >> shortly before your public comments about this this past summer, i was hearing off the record from democratic senators they believed they were going to have to go off the cliff because at that time, they couldn't conceive of any other way for republicans to violate their pledge to grover norquist that in january, once you're off the cliff, what everyone would be voting r for would not be considered a tax increase, so they thought they were going have to do it. is there now a growing feeling among democrats that the republicans are breaking up with norquist in such numbers that they might be able to do something reasonable before new year's eve? >> yeah, well, the fact is if we can't get a good deal and the bush tax cuts expire, when we come back in january, anything we do will be a tax cut and the grover norquist pledge won't apply, so it puts the re
but if we take a bad deal and say that all of the nation's fiscal problems are to be balanced on the back of middle class families and the wealthy don't participate, that's a bad deal we cannot and should not live within this country. >> shortly before your public comments about this this past summer, i was hearing off the record from democratic senators they believed they were going to have to go off the cliff because at that time, they couldn't conceive of any other way for republicans...
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to understand what's going on during the hopeless fiscal cliff negotiations rewind to 2011 when boehner and president obama came within inches of a grand bargain, a deal that would have forced both democrats and republicans to eat their vegetables. in its comprehensive analysis of what happens during the secret negotiations, matt bai wrote -- the deal unraveled in large part because speaker boehner could not get his unruly caucus to go along with raising new revenue. fast forward to this year and republicans now think that deal, the one they walked away from, sounds pretty good. they're using it as a basis for their current proposal. only problem. boehner had his chance. president obama now thinks he has the upper hand. according to the "washington post's" ezra klein, quote -- >> joining us now representative chris van hollen of maryland, ranking member of the house budget committee. great to have you on the program. >> great to be with you, alex. >> let's talk a little bit about 2011 versus 2012, which is to say, the republican party is a very different negotiating position than they w
to understand what's going on during the hopeless fiscal cliff negotiations rewind to 2011 when boehner and president obama came within inches of a grand bargain, a deal that would have forced both democrats and republicans to eat their vegetables. in its comprehensive analysis of what happens during the secret negotiations, matt bai wrote -- the deal unraveled in large part because speaker boehner could not get his unruly caucus to go along with raising new revenue. fast forward to this year...
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the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible question ] going over the fiscal cliff, you called serious business, extending the lower tax rates -- [ inaudible question ] >> i'm going to do everything i can to avoid putting the american economy, the american people through the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. >> which is worse for the economy? [ inaudible question ] could you include a debt limit that is in the overall package? >> as i told the president a couple weeks ago, there's a lot of things i've wanted in my life, but almost all of them had a price tag a
the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible...
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cliff and put it in place a comprehensive debt deal to deal with our country's fiscal challenges. the message they bought was we do not want you to go off the cliff. we do not want to bet the country. we want you to fix the country. we had a number of productive meetings in the past couple of days at the white house and leadership with the house and senate. and the first of house and senate members. we have come back pleased that we have been able to deliver the message of how the are so many people with different backgrounds and political points of view and life experiences who believe this is a critical moment for the country and a test for the country. but we are asking the members of congress to do is come together and take on these challenges, work together and put in place a plan for the good of the country. it is not about special interests. it is about public interest. this is a message dated first group of folks -- a diverse group of folks can deliver. on the campaign to fix the debt, i am so thrilled with what has happened in the past couple of months where what was an i
cliff and put it in place a comprehensive debt deal to deal with our country's fiscal challenges. the message they bought was we do not want you to go off the cliff. we do not want to bet the country. we want you to fix the country. we had a number of productive meetings in the past couple of days at the white house and leadership with the house and senate. and the first of house and senate members. we have come back pleased that we have been able to deliver the message of how the are so many...
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that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire house republican leadership signed on to the so-called fiscal cliff proposal letter. they're not serious about negotiating. i don't know the right wing and the tea party of who the republican party is nowadays but it's impossible to have a deal with one side refuses to compromise even after losing. they will not accept their own defeat. >> right. >> and that is the problem. >> a.b. let's play what congressman walter jones had to say on this boehner purge. i have the full screen of what he had to say when several members were removed as identified not being team players. he says, i was surprised but i won't sacrifice my integrity for anyone or any party. my integrity is what will get me in to heaven and i will vote my int
that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire house republican leadership signed on to the so-called fiscal cliff proposal letter. they're not serious about...
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whenever you hear members of congress talk about any kind of fiscal cliff deal you have to approach it with a sort of believe everything and believe nothing attitude. i think that everybody wants to avoid having taxes go up for all americans as of january 1st but everybody has a price for that. and it, to me, it's about whether or not both sides are looking for a win-win deal, meaning, my opponent wins and i win. or whether both sides or one of the sides are looking for a deal where only i win and you lose and on top of all of that then we have to look at what do they want to include in any sort of deal? are we going to address entitlement reform? are we going to cut spending? are we only trying to deal with the tax cut issue? will we try to address the debt ceiling issue? so there are a lot of moving parts here. jon: it seems the campaign promise of the president to raise taxes on couples making over $250,000 a year, it seems like that almost has to come true in some form for the president and the democrats to swallow a deal? >> i think so. i think the president has been committed to
whenever you hear members of congress talk about any kind of fiscal cliff deal you have to approach it with a sort of believe everything and believe nothing attitude. i think that everybody wants to avoid having taxes go up for all americans as of january 1st but everybody has a price for that. and it, to me, it's about whether or not both sides are looking for a win-win deal, meaning, my opponent wins and i win. or whether both sides or one of the sides are looking for a deal where only i win...
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our theme song today is will we get a fiscal cliff deal done? and i appreciate the music and hopefully we'll hear some sweet music from congress about this. getting down to the wire, guys. >> wow. i don't even know where to start. >> don't stop. keep going. >> please stop. please stop. >> i had a lot of sugared cereal for breakfast this morning. >> references -- he's great is what he is. >> a deejay? you're a deejay? >> a guy throwing around references coming off wilkos like that is aok can me. >> movie anchorman today, sullivan. >> stop it. >> so, brian sullivan international, what exactly does san diego mean in german and, secondly -- >> it's an ancient german word. >> my god. >> and, secondly, brian sullivan international, what do the futures look like right now based on the distressing opening salvo yesterday between tim geithner and republican leaders? >> mika can't hide behind the book. they don't look like much. they're flat to slightly down. everybody is in wait-and-see mode here. there's a story out that mitch mcconnell burst out laughi
our theme song today is will we get a fiscal cliff deal done? and i appreciate the music and hopefully we'll hear some sweet music from congress about this. getting down to the wire, guys. >> wow. i don't even know where to start. >> don't stop. keep going. >> please stop. please stop. >> i had a lot of sugared cereal for breakfast this morning. >> references -- he's great is what he is. >> a deejay? you're a deejay? >> a guy throwing around references...
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and washington is playing fiscal with the fiscal cliff. -- playing chicken with the fiscal cliff. this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan managed to solve problems and get along. listen to what john mccain said about what we need here. >> it's time now to sit across the table from one another, rather than -- in the way they did with ronald reagan and the way you get things done in washington. >> the way they did with ronald reagan and get things done in washington. you sit together and figure it out. they were at a holiday party they didn't talk to each other. they're issuing sort of statements and rebuttals and saying i'm not going to budge. >> negotiation by press release. this is not how things get done in washington and part of
and washington is playing fiscal with the fiscal cliff. -- playing chicken with the fiscal cliff. this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan...
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so he's trying to essentially give some encouragement to get the fiscal cliff deal talks ignited and going. and so this comes on -- the speech is coming on a breaking news day jenna of what you and i were talking about and that is basically citigroup laying off 11,000 workers as the president is now speaking to the business roundtable. those layoffs at the nation's third biggest bank have begun. jenna: let's talk a little bit more about that, liz, that news came into our newsroom a couple of hours ago. you've been working this. learning more about also what is to come for the big bank. why is the bank making such massive job layoffs now and what is really to come in the next year or so? >> reporter: yeah, what we're talking about here is essentially this is citigroup, this i is the bank that got $476 billion in bailout help. it got the most bailout help of any bank. what happened was citigroup was -- its ceo had stepped down a couple months ago, now they have a new ceo by the name of michael corbett, an is working very aggressively to cut out the excess, the middle management layers,
so he's trying to essentially give some encouragement to get the fiscal cliff deal talks ignited and going. and so this comes on -- the speech is coming on a breaking news day jenna of what you and i were talking about and that is basically citigroup laying off 11,000 workers as the president is now speaking to the business roundtable. those layoffs at the nation's third biggest bank have begun. jenna: let's talk a little bit more about that, liz, that news came into our newsroom a couple of...
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there are two ways to deal with that -- build another fiscal cliff to put on pressure, which puts us right back where we are, or have a default mechanism which has policy set aside that both sides do not like. one thing about the baseline -- under current law, if the congress packed its bags right now and went away, at the end of the 10-year period our debt to gdp ratio would be under 1%. he would definitely solve the deficit problem. >> under 1%? >> i believe. >> the percentage of your debt -- not the deficit to gdp? >> deficit to gdp. now, we do not want to get there that way. the same way we do not want to go over the fiscal class. the fiscal cliff is big austerity -- you get $seven trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years. but you do not do it you really want to do it. when it comes to the baseline, you have to work together as part of an agreement to get to the right baseline. that does not mean it is not real world deficit-reduction. it is. does it mean it is better than current law? maybe not. but there is agreement that current law, including the fiscal cliff, is not the b
there are two ways to deal with that -- build another fiscal cliff to put on pressure, which puts us right back where we are, or have a default mechanism which has policy set aside that both sides do not like. one thing about the baseline -- under current law, if the congress packed its bags right now and went away, at the end of the 10-year period our debt to gdp ratio would be under 1%. he would definitely solve the deficit problem. >> under 1%? >> i believe. >> the...